VK Shashikumar, Editor of CNN IBN Special Investigation Team interviewed Brigadier Phunthing, Convenor of the Ceasefire Monitoring Cell NSCN (IM) at its Mount Gilead Camp, Nagaland. This is the full transcript of the interview.
We were discussing about the movement and its implications on the overall region. We were talking about some groups who have approached you. Can you tell us more about that?
Brigadier Phunthing: Before the ceasefire there has been lot of people who felt that it is their right having felt the discrimination from all sides like…. like the ULFA for instance, they have come and we have helped them from the Manipur, even the UNLF which broke away from the PLA. Even if you see from Assam side also now you have UBDS and different groups…. we have helped. No doubt. Why? Not because that we have gone and asked but, they come to us for help and we have not said no to them at that period of time.
But if you put ideology apart than there are other logistical problems in running a movement like getting weapons and ammunitions. So how difficult it is for the NSCN (IM) to get all this?
Brigadier Phunthing: To get ammunition and weapons…it is not as difficult as people think it because you get it everywhere. It’s just a question of how you put yourself into it. If you are dedicated to a cause then nothing is impossible. That is how we have survived.
Talking about other arms struggle of like what is happening in Sri Lanka or the Cambodian situation, the Myanmar situation. Have you been closely interacting with them before the ceasefire?
Brigadier Phunthing: Yes, we have had a lot of interaction. We have tried to see the situation from different perspective because in a movement you cannot survive on your own. You have to have partnerships everywhere. This is how it works.
You have a civilian side, a political leadership, most of who have rose up to the ranks and we have people like you who are active military people…
Brigadier Phunthing: From the day one we have two structures, the civil structure and the army wings, but then before the army wing came the Naga movement has been a movement from the civil side. But, when the GOI began to use force then the Naga people organized the Naga home guard and slowly evolved itself in to Naga army and through experience the structure has changed and this structure has come about. But we still have the two structures and Naga movement is no different in that.
Lately, you have been in to the struggle with the K faction. Your observation on that?
Brigadier Phunthing: We have had no kind of struggle with them. Why this thing has happened is because the GOI’s way of looking at the Naga issue, trying to use them, thinking that by using them they would utilize us or weaken us but, in fact it strengthens us more because people know it. And this is the reason why they have been trying to create a situation here and there and the GOI has done nothing…literally nothing. There was even a political discussion at the highest level. They have given a commitment that they will try to deal with the situation but they have not. In fact they have made it looser. So, when a master is pulling the string than something goes wrong.
But for peace to Nagaland…
Brigadier Phunthing: I don’t think it has a question of prerequisite. It has different situation, it has different connotations… so, if he (Khaplang) is willing and as we have said that people talking about reconciliation and unity. Reconciliation is a gradual process. You cannot expect reconciliation overnight and unity; people have been trying to create that situation to create more confusion.
Where did you get the expertise to fight, to handle weapon. You are certainly not an army; you run a full-fledged institution virtually. So, how did this come about?
Brigadier Phunthing: In a movement, in a revolution it is said that you learn the skills through battlefields and experience. You never learn from the training. We give them basic training only. But, the person comes to learn when he moves in to the battlefield; by sweat and blood he learns it and through that only he comes up.
Did other country help in the process?
Brigadier Phunthing: Before the ceasefire in the 60s, we have been able to go to China. We have been able to go to undivided Pakistan…East Pakistan and now Bangladesh. Then they had helped. We have been fighting with the govt. of India since last 50 years…guerilla warfare. We have not gone in to a conventional war because we cannot afford it.
It is also said that during the ceasefire you got the ceasefire as an opportunity to increase the strength of your force, modernize yourself….
Brigadier Phunthing: Everyone has… It’s a way the mindset of Indian govt. has to change. If they have said that they really want peace to bring about settlement, the NSCN has gone all-out, because our collective leadership has made one particular statement that we will leave no stone unturned whatsoever, to find a way for settlement. How difficult it may be, trials it may be but it’s going on. People have been giving lot of accusations, throwing stones at us even, but then we have been gradually going on. But, since the govt. of India has been using their armed forces to suppress us even at the ceasefire period, you can’t expect the NSCN to say that the peace will come down from the heaven. If it is so than we have to be prepared for it. They have always said be prepared for the worst. This is what the Indian Army has always said.
The Naga leadership has suggested that the ideal formula for settlement would be some kind of inseparable bonding between the Naga people and India. Now within that inseparable bonding what will the role of Naga army be?
Brigadier Phunthing: Our leadership has made it very specifically very clear that there will be a Naga army because the people of Nagaland are the right people to defend their own land. The people from Maharashtra and people from Delhi are not going to defend my land. Because in 1962 we have learnt a lesson when Chinese came in then whole Assam valley was taken away and then Nehru shouted from Delhi saying my heart goes out for people of Assam. What happened? Of course the Army says we have learnt our lesson. No. if you look through the histories, there is nobody who can defend the land of their own…it is the people who have the right, the courage to defend their own land…so Nagas must have their own army to defend their land.
Do you have to collect taxes to keep the movement alive?
Brigadier Phunthing: Money is always important as in a movement but why do the India or world collect taxes, legitimacy, as simple as that. It is our legitimate right so, no one can say that you cannot collect taxes. It is the people that give us taxes, obligations to the movement not to the movement alone but to say that they are Nagas.
So, if I have to stay in Nagaland than how much tax do I need to give?
Brigadier Phunthing: According to your work
How do the ordinary Naga people deal with two governments—one elected and the other parallel administration run by NSCN (IM)?
Brigadier Phunthing: At one time something is very complicated, no doubt. The movement, which is going on, has not recognized the situation the Government of India has created. Having created the so-called Nagaland state… We are talking not only about the Naga people of northeast region, but also international areas like Myanmar…we’re talking about the whole of Naga areas.
On the road itself you might have your armed cadres, you might have the state police, Indian army and everyone passes by each other without acknowledging each other?
Brigadier Phunthing: Before the ceasefire…it is not written here (forehead)…NSCN is not written here. We walk as normal people until some one comes or spots us and we are arrested. Sometimes they carry out frisking to check the movement and then some people got arrested. As of now until you don’t say that you are NSCN…everyone moves without interfering.
So what are the elements of your parallel government?
Brigadier Phunthing: We have a government, a court where people go, file their cases and then our judicial processes solves those cases.
But, sometimes do you think it would be a tough situation for an ordinary people to balance between the revolutionary govt. and the state government?
Brigadier Phunthing: Definitely. People may say that there are so many governments. So, you choose. The choice is yours. If you think you are a Naga and you want to live independently so, you will have to choose. Most of the people who feel that they have not got justice from the state government, they come to us. In the villages we have carried what we can as much as possible. There may be some unsatisfactory things, which is amended from time to time.
Do people voluntarily come and submit their contribution to the movement? How does the system operate?
Brigadier Phunthing: It is voluntarily given, but then sometime it’s unwise to say it also. If I have to collect the tax and you have to give it to me willingly. But, if some one asks you why have given the tax than you would not say that you have given it willingly because you fear from the police or Indian army… that they’ll catch you and torture you and you will say I’ve been forced. That’s how they try to move out from the frying pan to the fire… The people have learnt to survive.
How do you keep in touch with your own people? How do you communicate?
Brigadier Phunthing: We have been able to sustain our movement through people centric communication for a very long time. The world is changing so fast but the electronic system has not touched most of the Naga region. That is why we have been using the oldest method of communication i.e. man-to-man contact. So, we relate to the people. To a great extent every Naga village is a republic. We talk to the village authorities to pass on to the people.
